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Post by DIYDafty on Feb 6, 2023 21:16:53 GMT
This came up in AJ's thread so thought I'd start my own.
My boiler is 20 years old servicing 50 year old pipework and rads. That boiler (an Ideal RD1 3100) has rarely let me down and never due to heat exchanger problems. It blasts out hot air into the garden though....
I think Tappy said newer boilers tend to have smaller bore pipework inside the HEs but does that apply to _all_ new boilers? Surely at least one or two manufacturers build their boilers to last?
I'm asking as my heating bills are getting totally out of hand and am thinking what I might do in the summer (a mad-capped Dafty Dual Boiler Backup arrangement) but more on that later.....
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 7, 2023 7:45:31 GMT
Most boilers have a maximum Flow Rate through them, but it’s generally not an issue for most smallish systems.
Regarding heat exchangers on new boilers; Stainless Steel ones tend to be better on old systems, but that’s no hard & fast rule.
They tend to be better on systems with weather compensation etc.
Aluminium HE’s have a better heat transfer rate & prefer clean systems. More suited to bog standard On/Off controls.
Intergas boilers have an aluminium heat exchanger with copper tubes running through them, so suites most systems.
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Post by crowsfoot on Feb 7, 2023 12:04:20 GMT
7 years ago I replaced my 30 year old boiler, most of the radiators, and re-piped the old microbore system changing to small bore pipework, thinking, "I'm sure to save a bit of cash
in the form of cheaper gas bills having done all this work".
I didn't, the gas bill was exactly the same!
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 7, 2023 18:52:27 GMT
7 years ago I replaced my 30 year old boiler, most of the radiators, and re-piped the old microbore system changing to small bore pipework, thinking, "I'm sure to save a bit of cash in the form of cheaper gas bills having done all this work". I didn't, the gas bill was exactly the same! It’s the Heat Loss of your home & the way you heat it, that determines your Gas Bill. A lot of times it’s more financially prudent to increase your home insulation, than replace your boiler/system. Central Heating systems are designed to maintain a certain Room temperature & combat the house fabric Heat Loss. There is no certain Room Temperatures you should live with, 21°C is not set in stone. The temperature you set your home at is the temperature you’re comfortable with. Take today for example, here in Jockoland it’s 9°C outside, now this is Winter, but I only need to heat Puller Towers an additional 10-11°C. That’s not a lot. Even here in cold Jockoland we’ll maybe only get outdoor temperatures of -0°C for 2-3 weeks. So, for roughly 50 weeks a year, we don’t need to run our CH at full pelt. Thats why it’s so important to have your CH on a Weather Compensation controls. |
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Post by DIYDafty on Feb 7, 2023 19:30:52 GMT
I can see that insulation would have a huge effect but isn't there something to be said for condensing boilers?
Maybe less than I thought....
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 7, 2023 21:41:42 GMT
A Condensing boiler is >90% efficient if condensing. So the optimum system mean water temperature should be around 50°C.
So your radiators need to heat your home at roughly 50°C.
Why not turn your boiler thermostat down, when it’s cold outside & see how warm your home is? Can you live with cooler radiators?
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Post by crowsfoot on Feb 8, 2023 9:46:41 GMT
A Condensing boiler is >90% efficient if condensing. So the optimum system mean water temperature should be around 50°C. So your radiators need to heat your home at roughly 50°C. Why not turn your boiler thermostat down, when it’s cold outside & see how warm your home is? Can you live with cooler radiators? That's the sure way to save money on your heating bills DD. The thinking on saving money on your heating bills is now almost the opposite to what it was 15 years ago, when we were all being told to run our boilers on the maximum heat output setting so that the house would warm up to the required "comfort levels" as quickly as possible, thus bringing in the secondary controls (room stats, TRVs, Zone valves) as quickly as possible in order to save you money and keep your house toasty warm! Another 15 years on and no doubt the thinking on all this will have changed again. |
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Post by crowsfoot on Feb 8, 2023 10:02:22 GMT
Just watched this on power flushing and my question is "do the public actually fork out hard earned cash for someone to fuck about like this"?
I know what my old gaffer in the 70s would have said about it!
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Post by crowsfoot on Feb 8, 2023 10:29:10 GMT
Insulation definitely is the key to saving money on our heating bills. Having any type of heating on at all is useless because the heat will rise and escape very quickly with no insulation.
(although the latest idea of insulating all pipework in the property both hot and cold pipes seems like overkill to me).
Regarding Weather Compensators; having worked on the plumbing side of heat pump maintenance I quickly learned not to switch that "Economy Button (weather compensator)" on because it would get you an instant re-visit back to the property the next day because the customer would complain that the radiators are now not hot enough!
The people making these new rules and regulations don't have to deal with the public after they've been implemented.
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Post by battle1066 on Feb 8, 2023 17:44:35 GMT
Just watched this on power flushing and my question is "do the public actually fork out hard earned cash for someone to fuck about like this"? I know what my old gaffer in the 70s would have said about it! Yes they do and adding to that pay a small fortune to. |
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Post by DIYDafty on Feb 8, 2023 20:14:02 GMT
Haven't watched the video yet but one of the comments says ..."blah blah...I'm booked on the Adey course next week....."
Then the video author, MJ Tiff Plumbing replies "....yeah I'm booked on it soon too...".
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 8, 2023 20:24:29 GMT
Insulation definitely is the key to saving money on our heating bills. Having any type of heating on at all is useless because the heat will rise and escape very quickly with no insulation. (although the latest idea of insulating all pipework in the property both hot and cold pipes seems like overkill to me). Regarding Weather Compensators; having worked on the plumbing side of heat pump maintenance I quickly learned not to switch that "Economy Button (weather compensator)" on because it would get you an instant re-visit back to the property the next day because the customer would complain that the radiators are now not hot enough! The people making these new rules and regulations don't have to deal with the public after they've been implemented. Ah, this is the ‘Hearth Effect’ of heating CF…..All in the Head Heating I call it. It’s like back in the day, you’d sit around the Coal Fire & get Spit Roasted. You’d sit & watch the Flames dance, while getting third degree burns on your legs!! The rest of the Room was perfectly warm, but you needed to sit at the Fire. It’s the same with ‘Low Temperature’ central heating, the room can be 21°C & the radiator at 50°C, but the radiator is not hot!! It’s all about changing peoples’ Hearth Effect brain. Standard Specification in a Large National Builder’s New Builds; Ideal Boilers & Weather Compensation. Guess what, the Outdoor Sensors are never wired into the Weather Compensation terminals on the Boilers. This for the exact same reason you stated. |
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Post by DIYDafty on Feb 8, 2023 22:23:25 GMT
Insulation definitely is the key to saving money on our heating bills. Having any type of heating on at all is useless because the heat will rise and escape very quickly with no insulation. (although the latest idea of insulating all pipework in the property both hot and cold pipes seems like overkill to me). Regarding Weather Compensators; having worked on the plumbing side of heat pump maintenance I quickly learned not to switch that "Economy Button (weather compensator)" on because it would get you an instant re-visit back to the property the next day because the customer would complain that the radiators are now not hot enough! The people making these new rules and regulations don't have to deal with the public after they've been implemented. Ah, this is the ‘Hearth Effect’ of heating CF…..All in the Head Heating I call it. It’s like back in the day, you’d sit around the Coal Fire & get Spit Roasted. You’d sit & watch the Flames dance, while getting third degree burns on your legs!! The rest of the Room was perfectly warm, but you needed to sit at the Fire. It’s the same with ‘Low Temperature’ central heating, the room can be 21°C & the radiator at 50°C, but the radiator is not hot!! It’s all about changing peoples’ Hearth Effect brain. Standard Specification in a Large National Builder’s New Builds; Ideal Boilers & Weather Compensation. Guess what, the Outdoor Sensors are never wired into the Weather Compensation terminals on the Boilers. This for the exact same reason you stated. Some parallels there with underfloor heating. I've used it only once in a flat I was renting in Ukraine. That was a luke warm floor but since it was so big it heated the room. It was ok I guess but don't know why they're all in fashion for new builds etc. I'd rather have a hearth or hot rad I can go to if I want to. |
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 9, 2023 6:33:53 GMT
Under Floor Heating is a fantastic way to heat a home, it’s Radiant Heating.
The human body loses about 80% of its heat by radiation, UFH stops that loss.
A fantastic comfy feeling in a home with UFH, ambient temperatures of 17-19°C can feel like 21!
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Post by crowsfoot on Feb 9, 2023 9:02:59 GMT
Haven't watched the video yet but one of the comments says ..."blah blah...I'm booked on the Adey course next week....." Then the video author, MJ Tiff Plumbing replies "....yeah I'm booked on it soon too...".  Good un dd, you do a good job of telling us exactly what the video is without the need to watch it. No doubt Adey supplied some of the sponsorship! |
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Good un dd, you do a good job of telling us exactly what the video is without the need to watch it.