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Post by jcplumb on May 20, 2017 19:50:44 GMT
Haha thanks for the sympathy Tom  I just went and checked the bleed on the pump and it's dry. Definately blocked cold feed. I'm thinking as a temporary fix to cut in just above the tee and remove any blockage there then just solder the pipe back up with a coupling. What do you reckon to my chances? |
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Post by rocketmanbkk on May 20, 2017 20:07:29 GMT
50:50
Blockage could be anywhere
Few years ago I had a job, powerflush & rads blocked.
Had to cut half of ceiling out to find it.
Pumped air in to 8 bar & nothing moved
The pipe was totally blocked.
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Post by jcplumb on May 20, 2017 20:15:20 GMT
just started scooping water out of the header tank, it's not water it's like some weird black soup.
Probably concetrated legionella smiley-whacky086 fan shit
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Post by Plumberboy on May 20, 2017 20:20:23 GMT
Haha thanks for the sympathy Tom I just went and checked the bleed on the pump and it's dry. Definately blocked cold feed. I'm thinking as a temporary fix to cut in just above the tee and remove any blockage there then just solder the pipe back up with a coupling. What do you reckon to my chances? Cut the feed pipe out and cut the tee out where it meets the circuit, as that' is where they get blocked up as its generally the idle part of the system and repipe,,,,,is it a shared feed and vent ? I'm guessing not. |
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Post by endfeed on May 20, 2017 20:28:17 GMT
If its got an air separator does that not mean there will be no tee to block up? Im sure he said there was one???
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Post by tomplum on May 20, 2017 20:29:29 GMT
you've got some of this,,,
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Post by tomplum on May 20, 2017 20:36:20 GMT
If its got an air separator does that not mean there will be no tee to block up? Im sure he said there was one??? the seporator is an elaborate tee, the blockage will be in the cold entry to the seperator, |
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Post by endfeed on May 20, 2017 20:40:56 GMT
 Cheers tom...got it now.. 
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Post by jcplumb on May 20, 2017 20:53:23 GMT
I did say something like 'where the cold feed tees in' but I was typing lazy, Endfeed's right the cold feed goes straight into the air seperator. Any road, I cut into the feed and the pipe was dry, not a drip. poked my solder down into the pipe as far as the elbow that is about 2'' from the seperator and nothing, I was expecting at least a bit of muck on there but nothing. Blew down the cold feed and no resistance at all could hear the air coming out of the expansion pipe. So I'm now guessing that the float valve on the header tank isn't working or is set too low. Have reconnected the cold feed with a pushfit as I'm guessing I'll be replacing the air seperator tomorrow. Gonna refill see if the header tank water comes back, if not I'll top it up with a jug like those 1960's flower pot f/e tanks  Oh and the washing up liquid made the header tank a ballache to empty with a sponge haha  |
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Post by jcplumb on May 20, 2017 21:19:27 GMT
Turned water back on a bit but left bathroom cold taps open so the water wouldn't get to the header tank until I got there and turned those taps off. Turned em off and nothing, no water entering header tank, ball valve arm floppy. This is why I hate working on heating systems haha. So seems that the kettling was probably down to my system being half empty. I've definitely got at least a bio film problem if not something sinister, there was what looked like a big slug hanging from the part 2 outlet and here's some pleasant evening viewing of what came out when I emptied it |
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Post by crowsfoot on May 21, 2017 7:47:01 GMT
Sounds like you had a birthday with that job last night JC (an old gaffer of mines saying for a difficult job).
"Late night plumbing" never seems to go well!!!
It's not that unusual to find crud like that in an expansion tank on that type of system JC.
Nonetheless, it's always a good idea to give it a good clean out if you can.
My take on what happened last night is that the small nylon pin and the diaphragm washer (inside the ball valve) are stuck and despite the arm still freely moving up and down that little pin isn't (hence no water going into the system).
A clue is that the plastic fill part (pic1) has some mould on it this indicates that the tank has been constantly taking in a very slight amount of water through it for a long time (giving chance for mould to form), hence, I don't think you ever had a dry tank or a shortage of water in the system
It's only a few pence for a new diaphragm washer so that's what I would do next (after connecting everything back up).
If you can backfill the system by connecting an hose pipe to it that would be an even better idea because it will help shift a blockage (if you had one) but do take care because this idea can go badly wrong.
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Post by jcplumb on May 21, 2017 12:51:38 GMT
You're right mate, it has filled overnight. I put a couple of inches in last night with a jug but this morning it's up to the right level. Opened the doc and removed a couple of pints then went up and looked and it's a fast drip from the valve. Put the hot water on earlier and no kettling from the boiler now. Before last nights fun the boiler would only fire for a minute or so then be off for 5 minutes before firing again and the flow pipe from boiler got very hot. Now it's behaving as it should, the flow and return take a good while to heat up and the boiler is firing for a lot longer. Don't know if it was the washing up liquid or I've inadvertently moved a blockage but I'll take it |
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Post by endfeed on May 21, 2017 15:36:39 GMT
If aint broke dont fix it |
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Post by tomplum on May 21, 2017 15:38:02 GMT
alls well that ends well JC |
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Post by jcplumb on May 21, 2017 16:41:07 GMT
I was a little hasty in my previous post. Didn't have the boiler on long enough to check properly.
On the heating and water setting it runs fine, always has though. On water only it doesn't fire for long and the flow pipe gets silly hot and takes ages to cool back down again.
On the water only setting the zone valve closes the feed to the central heating so it has to take the 15mm route through the coils in the cylinder, through the gate valve, then 20 feet of 15mm where it taps back in to the return from the boiler.
Apart from the first 5 feet where it goes down from the cylinder cupboard, that 15mm return is horizontal under the floor boards.
So my guess is there's a blockage somewhere on that run.
Could be.
Blocked coils - it's a twin coil cylinder so both would have to be blocked
Gate valve broken and stuck shut - but the spindle does turn and stops where you'd expect it to
Blockage in the long horizontal run under the floorboards - under floorboards and tight under the end of the bath (tap end of course)
I'm ruling out a blockage in the 22mm flow pipes and through the air seperator because that would mean the central heating would be affected too.
My guess would be the long horizontal run, probably just after the elbow coming down from the cylinder cupboard. Blockages love a bit of horizontal pipework smiley-face-shaking-fist
It's worth adding that the spring clips in the zone valve were broken up until I sorted it a few days ago so it was stuck open, so the main f/r water always had a nice easy run through the c/h pipework even if the timer was set to water only. The tenant did mention it about 18 months ago but said they very rarely use the heating or hot water so wasn't a problem, so being a lazy tight arse I never sorted it until I moved back in.
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Cheers tom...got it now.. 
