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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 11, 2020 12:22:51 GMT
Hello fastflowfred, Welcome to he brewcabin, All of the advice given up to now is correct and I hope it helps you, When you finally get the pipes empty of water putting ballofix isolating valves is good for next time because, todays modern taps will not last as long as the old ones, www.toolstation.com/isolating-valve-cp/p36879edit, whoops sorry Battle, I see you already advised valves as well, yes the ones with handles are better but, more expensive, I'm a tightwad me,,,  and don't be afraid to use push fit, they work good and much easier to use for DIYers.  Thanks Tom, I think I've got the gist now on the drain down options (I hope anyway). And the silly thing is I must have done it to install the power shower and I genuinely can't remember how i did it then ! Hopefully I won't need any push fit under there, just rejigging the existing copper. I'll do all this (planning it out) and then I fully expect the lock nut under the tap to scupper me ! : ) I can see the whole sink coming out tbh while I'm at it. If disaster strikes, I'll be in touch  |
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Post by DIYDafty on Nov 11, 2020 13:51:24 GMT
I _think_ Tom and Battle are refering to different parts on your system. Battle to any stuck gate valves on the bigger pipes from CW tank to cylinder. Tom I _think_ is talking about small isolation valves close to the site of the kitchen tap. You have a similar system to mine and I can see why Battle's replacement valve must be full bore. I think its less important by the time the water gets to the tap which is why I think Tom recommended the cheap iso valves at that stage although I might still get full bore. I got these bad boys (one red one blue) for my new kitchen but someone will tell me I've wasted my money - they're nice though.... www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-tee-ball-valve-blue-15mm/21860?_requestid=324300 |
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 11, 2020 14:52:16 GMT
I _think_ Tom and Battle are refering to different parts on your system. Battle to any stuck gate valves on the bigger pipes from CW tank to cylinder. Tom I _think_ is talking about small isolation valves close to the site of the kitchen tap. You have a similar system to mine and I can see why Battle's replacement valve must be full bore. I think its less important by the time the water gets to the tap which is why I think Tom recommended the cheap iso valves at that stage although I might still get full bore. I got these bad boys (one red one blue) for my new kitchen but someone will tell me I've wasted my money - they're nice though.... www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-tee-ball-valve-blue-15mm/21860?_requestid=324300 Cheers dafty, I also _ think _ you're right; we have had slightly crossed valves (not wires - different forum required for that). Yes, got it, thanks: full bore levers if I repace the gate one on the 22mm out of the cwst and (ideally) full bore 15mm's just before the flexi tails to the tap. Maybe someone can say definitively if full bores are needed there ? I was going to get the ones with the female (is it?) 1/2 inch out that the flexi tails will screw onto. www.toolstation.com/service-valve/p44747But again, don't think these are full bore - probably not looking at the body which doesn't seem fat enough? I'm still a little curious as to how will I know if the gate valve is actually broken - will it be obvious - will I hear a loud snap or will ot just be jammed / seized? As i understand it, if it works, that's the simplest (& least wasteful) solution to the drain down. Next, is a cwst bung (a 22mm I imagine). Next is drain down the cwst via the hot taps (& subsequently do any gate / lever valve swap out). When I know (sort of) what I'm doing, I actually enjoy plumbing problems so thanks for all your help guys, it's invaluable to an out and out amateur. As your valves dafty, they look great ! |
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 11, 2020 15:57:03 GMT
Also:
if I try the bung route - do i also have to close off the expansion pipe that's feeds into the top?
(I see some of the kits - Reign is it? - have a seal for that pipe above also. I'm terrible at physics anyway but can't see why that's needed.)
Also I assume these are a very short term solutuon - while you quickly change the tap / install the gate. i.e. not to be relied on?
Thanks.
Edit
just googled further and I think (?) these are for f&E tanks on the hearing to keep the pipework 'sealed' , yes?
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Post by battle1066 on Nov 11, 2020 17:55:12 GMT
Thanks. So, if I bung the cwst in the loft, can I just turn on the hot tap (any?) to drain any excess, and will that essentially stop any 'flow' - allowing me to work kn downstairs? I take it they just insert, and screw in making the seal? And should that way, give me the best chance of avoiding any airlock subsequently? Yes. To the above. Although I always run the tap at the same floor level I'm working on. |
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 16, 2020 10:25:14 GMT
Haha. Praise the lord for gate valves that still work after 30 - odd years. It closed off the cwst just fine, so minimal displacement / waste of hw and I did a temp fix on the existing pipe work while I look for the right tap and re-jig the pipework under the sink accordingly. So thanks all, really apprecaite the tips. That said, I would like one of those tall (500mm or so) pull out spray type taps but it will be on / into a stainless drainer and so stability is an issue. So I looked at tap brackets and wondered of anyone had any experience / advice? This one any good do we think? www.hafele.co.uk/en/product/tap-support-bracket-universal-for-large-or-heavy-taps/000000ff00014db400010023/This would seem to work as it fixes to the cabinet. or are the plastic brackets that spread the load around the base of the tap OK? |
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Post by jcplumb on Nov 16, 2020 18:19:45 GMT
I've seen one of those in situ, to be fair I was impressed. The plastic ones that spread the load are OK for smaller monoblocs, I wouldn't fit a tall spray tap using one though. Go for the one you linked imo.
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Post by crowsfoot on Nov 16, 2020 18:26:02 GMT
A full shut off on a 30 year old gate valve is indeed a rarity in plumbing Fred. Even if they work you normally only get something like a 98% shut off which is just enough to give you a good soaking whilst you're changing the taps.  Those "fancy dan" taps will fail on the "pull out flex" after a few years Fred - like a customer once said to me after I had changed them for a more conventional type of tap "They seemed a good idea at the time"! I've never used one of those reinforcement brackets, but I do like the idea of them because some of these sinks that are on the market today are very thin and flimsy and bend all over the place when you fix a tap to them. |
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Post by battle1066 on Nov 16, 2020 18:40:00 GMT
Haha. Praise the lord for gate valves that still work after 30 - odd years. It closed off the cwst just fine, so minimal displacement / waste of hw and I did a temp fix on the existing pipe work while I look for the right tap and re-jig the pipework under the sink accordingly. So thanks all, really apprecaite the tips. That said, I would like one of those tall (500mm or so) pull out spray type taps but it will be on / into a stainless drainer and so stability is an issue. So I looked at tap brackets and wondered of anyone had any experience / advice? This one any good do we think? www.hafele.co.uk/en/product/tap-support-bracket-universal-for-large-or-heavy-taps/000000ff00014db400010023/This would seem to work as it fixes to the cabinet. or are the plastic brackets that spread the load around the base of the tap OK? I've seem them on plastic sinks with mixer taps but not as good as that bracket. |
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 18, 2020 15:45:10 GMT
A full shut off on a 30 year old gate valve is indeed a rarity in plumbing Fred. Even if they work you normally only get something like a 98% shut off which is just enough to give you a good soaking whilst you're changing the taps. Those "fancy dan" taps will fail on the "pull out flex" after a few years Fred - like a customer once said to me after I had changed them for a more conventional type of tap "They seemed a good idea at the time"! I've never used one of those reinforcement brackets, but I do like the idea of them because some of these sinks that are on the market today are very thin and flimsy and bend all over the place when you fix a tap to them. I was flabbered and ghasted in equal measure too crowsfoot - but also delighted obviously. Yes, a little bit wary of the pull out aspect of those taps myself tbh - I guess if I can get a reasonable (quality / aesthetics / price) one with a decent 'guarantee', then it's not the end of the world if it needs swapping out. Plus, when I redo the pipework for it properly, I reckon I could make it a lot easier to revisit next time (plus I won't use flexis with cardboard washers like the last Herbert seemed to have done). But my temp fix will buy me some time to let me have a little look around for a tap. And yes, I also reckon that if I do go large (tall) , there's really no option other than to get one of those brackets as I'm sure I wrap my turkey every Christmas in a foil thicker than my current stainless steel sink. Thanks again. |
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Post by DIYDafty on Nov 18, 2020 22:14:46 GMT
A full shut off on a 30 year old gate valve is indeed a rarity in plumbing Fred. Even if they work you normally only get something like a 98% shut off which is just enough to give you a good soaking whilst you're changing the taps. Those "fancy dan" taps will fail on the "pull out flex" after a few years Fred - like a customer once said to me after I had changed them for a more conventional type of tap "They seemed a good idea at the time"! I've never used one of those reinforcement brackets, but I do like the idea of them because some of these sinks that are on the market today are very thin and flimsy and bend all over the place when you fix a tap to them. Well, after fitting a stainless steel sink in another kitchen which I hated I've got myself a solid granite composite sink for the kitchen I'm doing now - even has partially drilled out tap holes from underneath so you don't need closure caps or whatever they're called. And I reckon that beast will take a "fancy dan" tap !!! So I'm a gonna get myself one ..... |
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Post by battle1066 on Nov 18, 2020 22:34:03 GMT
A full shut off on a 30 year old gate valve is indeed a rarity in plumbing Fred. Even if they work you normally only get something like a 98% shut off which is just enough to give you a good soaking whilst you're changing the taps. Those "fancy dan" taps will fail on the "pull out flex" after a few years Fred - like a customer once said to me after I had changed them for a more conventional type of tap "They seemed a good idea at the time"! I've never used one of those reinforcement brackets, but I do like the idea of them because some of these sinks that are on the market today are very thin and flimsy and bend all over the place when you fix a tap to them. Well, after fitting a stainless steel sink in another kitchen which I hated I've got myself a solid granite composite sink for the kitchen I'm doing now - even has partially drilled out tap holes from underneath so you don't need closure caps or whatever they're called. And I reckon that beast will take a "fancy dan" tap !!! So I'm a gonna get myself one ..... Remember when renting the renter's children will use said tap as a climbing implement! |
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Post by jcplumb on Nov 19, 2020 1:08:17 GMT
I've got a spray tap, similar to this one. Mine was £110 from Travis Perkins if I remember rightly, this one is more expensive but I can't find a link to mine. www.screwfix.com/p/bristan-liquorice-lqr-prosnk-c-pull-out-spray-mono-mixer-kitchen-tap-chrome/7046d It's not pull-out even though it says it is in the description (well done poofix). I fitted one of these Liquorice ones in a customers house and was very impressed with it, I recommend it. The flexible part starts above the tap body so there's nothing hanging down under the sink, best of both worlds really. Here's a pic of the one I fitted, goes lovely with the black composite sink: Attachment Deleted |
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Post by DIYDafty on Nov 19, 2020 10:39:10 GMT
I've got a spray tap, similar to this one. Mine was £110 from Travis Perkins if I remember rightly, this one is more expensive but I can't find a link to mine. www.screwfix.com/p/bristan-liquorice-lqr-prosnk-c-pull-out-spray-mono-mixer-kitchen-tap-chrome/7046d It's not pull-out even though it says it is in the description (well done poofix). I fitted one of these Liquorice ones in a customers house and was very impressed with it, I recommend it. The flexible part starts above the tap body so there's nothing hanging down under the sink, best of both worlds really. Here's a pic of the one I fitted, goes lovely with the black composite sink: View AttachmentNot cheap though are they. I like the first comment from a DIYer review. "...Easy to fit - just use a plumber..." The second comment seemed to have a lot of problems with it but who knows... THinking about it a bit more I'll need a tap that can cope with low pressure for hot and mains cold. Might rule out this sort of fancy dan tap ? |
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