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Post by rocketmanbkk on Feb 9, 2022 13:17:46 GMT
A house with a combi boiler
Downstairs has under floor heating with 2 separate digital thermostats to control each room & work well.
The upstairs has 4 rads and are only when the boiler is on. No separate thermostat.
The customer wants to be able to control the upstairs temperature (not room by room).
Am I right in thinking it needs a zone valve & thermostat?
Cheers all
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Post by battle1066 on Feb 9, 2022 19:28:26 GMT
Not that I’ve seen much underfloor heating but what I have seen has been set up as each system needs a two-port valve (i.e. an ‘S-plan’ system) to give them independent control. The radiators and hot water supply are normally controlled by a two-channel timer while the underfloor heating system has its own programmable room thermostats.
So i can’t see any problem with your suggestion Rocky.
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Post by rocketmanbkk on Feb 9, 2022 19:29:58 GMT
Cheers. I think it’ll work. I just need to figure out where the 2 port will need to go but that should be on.
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Post by tomplum on Feb 9, 2022 20:44:34 GMT
If the house was one that, used to have a cylinder cupboard and as been converted, That would be a good place to put the zone valve,
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Post by rocketmanbkk on Feb 10, 2022 7:48:53 GMT
If the house was one that, used to have a cylinder cupboard and as been converted, That would be a good place to put the zone valve, It’s all been extended & messed around with now & there’s nowhere other than the loft. Happy days. I think they’ve accepted it’s a non starter |
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 10, 2022 10:27:01 GMT
A house with a combi boiler Downstairs has under floor heating with 2 separate digital thermostats to control each room & work well. The upstairs has 4 rads and are only when the boiler is on. No separate thermostat. The customer wants to be able to control the upstairs temperature (not room by room). Am I right in thinking it needs a zone valve & thermostat? Cheers all Chances are the UFH has been incorrectly piped up. The UFH should be connected to two Close Coupled Tees on the Return. If it’s piped up like a standard S Plan then it’s wrong. The UFH is not just another Zone, like a cylinder coil. |
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Post by battle1066 on Feb 10, 2022 19:13:01 GMT
A house with a combi boiler Downstairs has under floor heating with 2 separate digital thermostats to control each room & work well. The upstairs has 4 rads and are only when the boiler is on. No separate thermostat. The customer wants to be able to control the upstairs temperature (not room by room). Am I right in thinking it needs a zone valve & thermostat? Cheers all Chances are the UFH has been incorrectly piped up. The UFH should be connected to two Close Coupled Tees on the Return. If it’s piped up like a standard S Plan then it’s wrong. The UFH is not just another Zone, like a cylinder coil. What’s the logic behind that then Dick? |
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 13, 2022 6:47:35 GMT
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 13, 2022 6:59:02 GMT
Chances are the UFH has been incorrectly piped up. The UFH should be connected to two Close Coupled Tees on the Return. If it’s piped up like a standard S Plan then it’s wrong. The UFH is not just another Zone, like a cylinder coil. What’s the logic behind that then Dick? Better control of both the Radiators & UFH. Better for a condensing boiler too, it’ll condense more if run at a lower temperature. Always Range Rate the CH output of a condensing Combi boiler. As for wiring & controls; the UFH manifold circulation pump can be wired to a Thermostat in that area & the Pump/Zone Valve for the Radiators the same. The finite details of the wiring can be confirmed when more details are available. To be honest, the WB schematic is easier wired for the hard of thinking. |
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Post by tomplum on Feb 13, 2022 13:56:50 GMT
out of the box thinking there dick, you have a rad section off the flow going back into the flow and the UFH section going off the return and back into the return, Does that work ok ?? I've done jobs were the one pipe system was still being installed in skools and public builds and specified by the engineer , I never understood why and, was never there to see the performance,  |
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Post by battle1066 on Feb 13, 2022 16:20:44 GMT
Whooshitter Botch have a good way of doing it, especially if the UFH is not in a screed & a higher UFH Mean Water Temperature is required. www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/support/literature/download/TB%200137For UFH in a screed, The CC Tees are better on the return, as I said. Here’s a Fag Packet sketch I did for you Rocky or anyone else that’s remotely interested; <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Is there any truth in the fact the UFT is only any good if you have heavy duty screed and 150mm King span - none of this just below the floor covering as its lost all the benefits one hour after turn off? |
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 13, 2022 18:23:13 GMT
out of the box thinking there dick, you have a rad section off the flow going back into the flow and the UFH section going off the return and back into the return, Does that work ok ?? I've done jobs were the one pipe system was still being installed in skools and public builds and specified by the engineer , I never understood why and, was never there to see the performance,  What is done here Tom is there’s a Primary/Secondary Pipe set-up. This has been done for years, mainly in Commercial heating Plant Rooms. In fact I spent over a Year at the end of my Apprenticeship doing Commercial Heating, that’s why I’m a Time-Served Plumber & Heating Engineer. On some Commercial jobs; The Primary circuit, as you correctly stated, is a one pipe system. It simply revolved around the Boiler House, this was taking the Whole Heat Load for the entire Building & had its own circulation pump. Then the pipes for certain areas(zones) of the building were Close Coupled Teed from the Primary large pipe & they then became the Secondary circuit, with their own circulation pump. The Close Coupled Tees were no more than 150mm apart. This dimension of 150mm would ensure no circulation out of the Tees if the Secondary Pump was not running. The old boys I worked under were fucking amazing, they had these saying, one was; ‘What goes into a Tee comes out of a Tee’. So, if no flow exited from the branch of the Tee, it just flowed out the other side.......Simples!! And, if some of the water flowed out the branch, the remaining flowed out the other side!! So, with a Secondary circulation pump running, it pulled flow out the first Tee & then fed it back into the second Tee, 150mm down the road. Of course theres always other consideration, Delta T, Delta P etc. But in simple terms it’s how a Primary/Secondary with CCT’s works. It avoids Low Loss Headers, Which many now favour. |
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 13, 2022 18:28:04 GMT
Whooshitter Botch have a good way of doing it, especially if the UFH is not in a screed & a higher UFH Mean Water Temperature is required. www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/support/literature/download/TB%200137For UFH in a screed, The CC Tees are better on the return, as I said. Here’s a Fag Packet sketch I did for you Rocky or anyone else that’s remotely interested; <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> Is there any truth in the fact the UFT is only any good if you have heavy duty screed and 150mm King span - none of this just below the floor covering as its lost all the benefits one hour after turn off? No mate, UFH will work great on most types of Floor Construction. Though a Concrete screed is really the Dog’s Ballox. Its all about heat transfer from the UFH Loop Pipes & the Floor surface temperature. |
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Post by tomplum on Feb 13, 2022 20:51:21 GMT
thanks for the lesson dick, as you so rightly say, Every day is a skool day,,  |
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Post by dickpuller on Feb 13, 2022 21:27:00 GMT
Cheers Tom. In many ways my House Bashing working life is so simple. I sometimes miss the complexities of our Trade.
As you know, I’m a very humble man & the milk of human kindness. It’s good sometimes to pass on my extensive knowledge & intellect to the hard of thinking, others lower down the evolutionary scale👍
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