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Post by DIYDafty on Sept 20, 2018 22:16:44 GMT
Hello Everyone First post and not sure how it will go down but I've watched Tom on youtube for a long time and really like his tips and if after reading the below he tells me to sod off, I'll still like his tips  I'm not a plumber so not sure if that instantly makes me not welcome but definitely enjoy doing my own plumbing at home. Without hours and hours and years and hours of experience that many of you guys have I obliviously can't compete but on the other hand I don't need to know everything about everything - just how things work in our house and general plumbing and I don't need to worry too much about my soldering and copper pipe work being pleasing to the eye etc as I've seen some plumbers videos but I do try my best to do it right without bodges (even if I do end up with lots of green crap and big blobs of solder Anyway I just wanted to ask is talking about gas (or even asking questions) a definite "no" on the board as it is on some others. My experience with gas is very limited and what I do know has come from books (one of the few topics you still need to get a book for because there is very little on the internet) and also some very early "bulletin boards" from the early 1990s. My neighbour has been doing his own gas work for decades is very dismissive of the regs and gassafe etc - he reckons (and yes I understand the fact that who is he to reckon compared to an experienced plumber/engineer but anyway..) he reckons that boilers are manufactured to a standard that means so long as the inputs and outputs (gas/water/air) are plumbed in correctly then there will be no problem with the flue gas composition or anything else and even if you want to be 100% certain then a fga is still a lot cheaper than paying an engineer who in turn has to pay gassafe. And regarding general gas plumbing with copper pipe and leaks, then he says the pressure/drop test isn't that difficult and should be more widely publicised to stop diyers relying on a bubble tests only. You can probably tell from my tone that I would like to believe that but I also do know that there probably have been dangerous things done by diyers in the past. But does that mean someone who really wants to try to do it properly should be prevented unless he pays a few K for a gassafe mandated course? |
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Post by dickpuller on Sept 21, 2018 7:49:43 GMT
Let’s just ignore Plumbing, knock yourself out there as far as I’m concerned, you get a leak damage the whole house, will your insurance pay out........hmmmm???!!!
As for the gas, your ‘friend’ is a fucking idiot!! He could take the whole street out & kill people!!!
I could replace brake pads & discs on my van, the wife’s car, my two sons’ cars & my daughter’s car. Youtube & On-Line is full of great information. Would I do it?? No chance!! The guys that do that sort of work have knowledge, experience & skills. They fully understand what they’re doing. So, I trust them with my families life.
DafyDIYers are just a PITA!!
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Post by tomplum on Sept 22, 2018 8:18:23 GMT
Hello and welcome to the forum Leeks, you are very welcome to come here and ask any question on gas, There are no rules on here but common sense must prevail a bit like Dirty Harry, " do you fell lucky" When I started work in 1968, anyone could work on gas without knowing fuck all, the men teeching me knew fuck all compared to today, but they had common sence and a nose, if there's a smell of gas your instincts should tell you to find out where its coming from and what to do, The real danger comes from the exhaust end, carbon monoxide, thats the killer, there's no smell, thats the one you need to worry about, But yeah I don't preach sermons , ask anything you like and I'll answer as honest as i can, I'll advice whether its a diy or " get someone in" There are many jobs you can do on a boiler without breakin any rules I am Tom by the Way, I changed my name to oaplum when I started drawing pension, So Welcome leeks enjoy the forum,ask whatever you need to and remember our motto, rules are for fools  |
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Post by tomplum on Sept 22, 2018 8:35:55 GMT
I even do a video on testing gas, to my knowledge, no other plumber will.
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Post by DIYDafty on Sept 23, 2018 19:40:27 GMT
Let’s just ignore Plumbing, knock yourself out there as far as I’m concerned, you get a leak damage the whole house, will your insurance pay out........hmmmm???!!! As for the gas, your ‘friend’ is a fucking idiot!! He could take the whole street out & kill people!!! I could replace brake pads & discs on my van, the wife’s car, my two sons’ cars & my daughter’s car. Youtube & On-Line is full of great information. Would I do it?? No chance!! The guys that do that sort of work have knowledge, experience & skills. They fully understand what they’re doing. So, I trust them with my families life. DafyDIYers are just a PITA!! Understood and agree with some of your points. The "friend" is not really a friend as such - just a retired neighbour I talk to occasionally. The issue around getting the right people in for the right job is something very interesting and many folk would agree with you. If you could always guarantee to have tradespeople who know their stuff like Tom and yourself why wouldn't you? The problem is I have seen and have been the victim of so many cowboys over the years. When its your house, your car, your drive etc you do have one small advantage and that is you care a lot about the job and will (well I do) take a lot more time to get it right. It was quite relevant your example about brakes because just a month ago I had a couple of wheels changed on my car by one of those mobile tyre changer people. It was a very friendly guy that did the work and I thought nothing of it. Until a week later I took the car for its MOT at a place I've been taking my bike and two cars for years and never had any problems so I trust them. The car had hardly been driven since the tyre change. The engineer/inspector came out and asked me if I'd had these two tyres changed recently (I guess it was obvious anyway from the new tread) but he said several of the wheel nuts were not even hand tight !!!! The reason I asked him if I could take the video was to then use against the company that did the work. Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't make the occasional mistake or whatever, I'm just saying its not as simple to say as "call in the professionals" for anything that needs doing. www.dropbox.com/s/bpi61u47l5qwovt/IMG_20180823_164856.mp4?dl=0One other example that happened a long time ago (might dig out the pics at some point) was when we had a "plumber" do the first fix for a bathroom. After leaving it leaking in several places, fitting 15mm pipe to the shower when even the mixer instructions (and everyone knows) should be 22mm except sometimes the last few feet, and fitting the geberit frame so high, you couldn't sit on it without a pair of bricks underneath oh and also fitting compression isloators to make his life easier to work on the rad (if he'd told me we could have quite easily managed without ch or hw for a period) below flooring. After all that I decided I wouldn't invite anyone to take four figure sums from me for that kind of work. Maybe I've been very unlucky and definitely agree you can't do everything yourself - everyone has a limit but these days with youtube and forums like this information is a lot better than it used to be. One final thing to say on this is my "profession" is as an engineer writing software/code. I have no problem at all with others less experienced giving it a go. Yes, it could lead to someone writing the wrong sort of code when connected to the wrong sort of service could kill people too but should we really ban it? One thing (ok this is the final point!) we should do is treat all engineers in this country with the respect they deserve (including software, hardware, heating, electrical, mechanical etc). Perhaps some feel that the gassafe badge gives them that respect but there should be accredited standards so you don't need to produce a portfolio of happy customers or spout a few pearls of wisdom for everyone to know that you're good. Pilots don't need to (just show 'em the badge with flying hours), nor do Doctors ("I'm a consultant blah balh at this hospital....). What about plumbers that don't want to work on gas but nevertheless are bloody good at what they do - how do they differentiate themselves from some cowboy who calls himself a plumber? |
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Post by dickpuller on Sept 23, 2018 20:17:08 GMT
That’s the daft thing about the UK; it costs a fortune in training, registration, equipment & tools for a Plumber to be Gas Safe registered, with inspections etc. However, any DaftyDIYer can do Gas work in their own home.
Don’t get me wrong, with the course cowboys & career change chancers etc, there’s plenty useless cunts you wouldn’t let near any gas installation.
DIY Gas work should be illegal.
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Post by arfur chrysaik on Sept 23, 2018 21:41:44 GMT
All fucking work should be illegal Dick  . |
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Post by tomplum on Sept 23, 2018 21:45:43 GMT
and the person who invented the phrase " hard work never did anyone any harm" should be hung and eveyone allowed to claim compensation from his/her remarks |
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Post by woodbine66 on Sept 24, 2018 22:00:32 GMT
and the person who invented the phrase " hard work never did anyone any harm" should be hung and eveyone allowed to claim compensation from his/her remarks  I prefer Dean Martins take on it - "hard work never hurt anyone, but why take the risk?" 
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Post by DIYDafty on Dec 27, 2018 22:45:58 GMT
Our boiler is in the garage and works ok at the moment but is I think about 10-15 years old. It works though so not planning to replace it right now but do worry a bit if it died during winter etc. When the time comes I know that some on here would be against but what are the chances of getting the odd pointer here and there if, one summer, I wanted to replace it with something really nice like an Intergas? I'm sure there is a lot more too than mounting it and connecting up flow/return/gas/flue/condensate/etc - not least the tightness test before/after and FGA check of the gases. And the gas pipe size is also a black box for me (currently 22mm from meter to boiler but I suppose there's more to it than that). Tom has already pretty well kindly told me more about the tightness test. As I say I'm not doing it now and may never get around to it but if I did, one questions I definitely don't know the answer to is what fga should I buy if I was to do it, and what tests should I perform on it? Is something like this no good? www.bes.co.uk/kane-504-flue-gas-analyser-21471 And what else am I likely to have not thought about? Edit: Just watched this . Bloody hell he's having to bend some of the copper pipework inside the boiler ! Surely it should be right from the factory. |
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Gassafe
Dec 27, 2018 23:13:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by endfeed on Dec 27, 2018 23:13:18 GMT
I even do a video on testing gas, to my knowledge, no other plumber will. hi Tom, is there a way for testing to see if too much gas is going to the boiler/appliances? To keep the old gas bill down👍 |
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Post by crowsfoot on Dec 28, 2018 7:34:47 GMT
Up to the early 90s you could pay to have a CORGI badge on your van and receive updates of the new gas regulations.
It wasn't a requirement of the law though
CORGI did have a bad name with installers though, because they would take their money but would never help you out if you had a problem.
I once worked for a firm that wasn't a member of CORGI. However, we did a small gas safety course and we got a badge to display on our van that said "GAS IN SAFE HANDS" - this would be middle 80s.
ACOPS was the first gas qualification and I can remember doing it in 1994 which was a 3 day course of spoon fed answers that lasted 5 years, everyone passed even non plumbers and that was the problem.
By the late 90s the ACS qualification had arrived costing us all £££££££s flowed by registration on that new thing called the internet and a new job had been created where there wasn't one previously.
This is just how I remember things happening, perhaps others remember it differently.
You can adjust the gas pressure at the gas valve, but you can't turn it down to save some cash (it's what the appliance is designed to operate at).
Really expensive gas nowadays in it!!
Tappy,
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Gassafe
Dec 28, 2018 10:26:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by endfeed on Dec 28, 2018 10:26:56 GMT
Our gas bills are like having a mortgage 😱 thought our bills would go down with having a new boiler.
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Post by tomplum on Dec 28, 2018 14:39:03 GMT
its all to do with insulation endfeed, get it warm and keep it warm, I've sent you a PM,
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Post by dickpuller on Dec 28, 2018 16:03:48 GMT
Up to the early 90s you could pay to have a CORGI badge on your van and receive updates of the new gas regulations. It wasn't a requirement of the law though CORGI did have a bad name with installers though, because they would take their money but would never help you out if you had a problem. I once worked for a firm that wasn't a member of CORGI. However, we did a small gas safety course and we got a badge to display on our van that said "GAS IN SAFE HANDS" - this would be middle 80s. ACOPS was the first gas qualification and I can remember doing it in 1994 which was a 3 day course of spoon fed answers that lasted 5 years, everyone passed even non plumbers and that was the problem. By the late 90s the ACS qualification had arrived costing us all £££££££s flowed by registration on that new thing called the internet and a new job had been created where there wasn't one previously. This is just how I remember things happening, perhaps others remember it differently. You can adjust the gas pressure at the gas valve, but you can't turn it down to save some cash (it's what the appliance is designed to operate at). Really expensive gas nowadays in it!! Tappy, Same here Tappy, volitary CORGI & first training was ACOPS, it was a joke!! Ive been corgi & GS registered ever since. Did my last ACS this year, 2.5Days Training & Assessment, complete fucking joke!! Its been a GS year for me, had my first GS inspection in 15 years this year too. Done loads of gas work over the last 4-5 years & have never been more clued up. But hey, every day is still a Skool Day👍 |
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