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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 6, 2018 16:16:21 GMT
One bit of advice for Fastflow (poss too late now) is to latch the 3 port valve into mid position with the lever on the side. It's always the second thing I do after knocking power off when draining one of these systems. Helps the system drain better and refill better. Same with 2 ports - get the levers latched before draining. Thanks woodbine. Miraculously, i knew that because I have also changed the three port valve (reason for the drain down in the first place) and so read / saw somewhere that you should latch them open. That bit at least seemed to work. |
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Post by tomplum on Nov 6, 2018 16:27:29 GMT
Bleedin the rads when its running can draw air in the system, but if the rads are chucking heat out, its looking good, Dopn't worry about dirty water, thats normal, adding the fernox, I never used any but seeing as you've bought it, here's what to do connect a hose pipe to the drain off, tie ball valve in tank up and drain, watch the water in the tank drain and when its empty, shut the drain off, Empty the contents of the fernox in tank and untie the ball valve, let it fill then bleed the upstairs rads then fire up and check round, job done,  |
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Post by woodbine66 on Nov 6, 2018 17:19:06 GMT
Yes, good advice from Tom. Not uncommon to hear of people just chucking the bottle of Fernox in the F&E tank. And that's where it will stay - not circulating in the system where it should be.
I've got a short length of thin hose pushed onto the end of a small funnel. I push the end of the hose into the tank connector at bottom of F&E tank as far as I can (just a few inches, as the wife likes it  ) then pour the inhibitor in funnel. I do this with the system either fully drained just before refill, or drained to just below tank. |
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Post by tomplum on Nov 6, 2018 17:28:57 GMT
why thank you kind sir  and a good little tip with the hose pipe too,  |
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Post by lauraleeks on Nov 6, 2018 18:37:09 GMT
All the sludge loossened by the F3 will have been floating round the system, so it would look worse at first, and bear in mind the downstairs rads on drop loops will need to be flushed out individually. They will have been holding dirty water and then circulating it round the system when the ch got switched on.
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 7, 2018 13:05:09 GMT
1. Bleedin the rads when its running can draw air in the system, but if the rads are chucking heat out, its looking good, Dopn't worry about dirty water, thats normal, adding the fernox, 2. I never used any but seeing as you've bought it, here's what to do connect a hose pipe to the drain off, tie ball valve in tank up and drain, watch the water in the tank drain and when its empty, shut the drain off, Empty the contents of the fernox in tank and untie the ball valve, let it fill then bleed the upstairs rads then fire up and check round, job done,  . Ah, OK. Been doing it with the pump on all these years with the twisted logic that, with the water moving around, it would somehow dislodge all the air too? But to be clear, do you mean "running" with the boiler lit / pump going is bad - whereas with the boiler not 'on' but the pump still on overrun is OK? (Is it the boiler being lit that can draw air in or the pump running?) 2. Amazed. Thought it was mandatory? Mine certainly seems to have a fair amount of dirty / discoloured water - nowt like the clear as a crystal spa stuff that flows after a Fernox flush in the videos they make : ) But yes, I have it so it will bloody well go in now and thanks for the tip. Do you just check the level going down on the F&E visually? In other words, just watch the tank itself for it to dip below the drain off in the tank (i.e. being careful not to get more air in I guess) then peg it downstairs to stop the drain off at the rad? I see below from lauraleeks that I might be better off draining the other ground floor rads individually to try & get rid of as much sludge as possible (& given that they didn't drain properly / at all last time anyway)? On the one hand, I definitely do want to get as much sludge & crap out as possible (without a 350 notes plus powerflush thanks very much) but on the other, they are all getting hot & working (so far). Given that I now know that, if anything goes wrong with the existing valves (grub screws down the drain / they're just knackered, etc), the fact that I will have to change the drain-off / entry valves for each rad. is also making me really think twice. (They are old mysons with imperial thread nuts on the 10mm entry pipe, so no new, metric valve will fit to that nut - and so that is a ball ache / risky business getting the old olives off with the pipe intact and still fit for purpose.) Well, that and ano huge bollocking from Mrs FFF if the heating & H/W is off for any length again ; ) |
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 7, 2018 13:14:35 GMT
All the sludge loossened by the F3 will have been floating round the system, so it would look worse at first, and bear in mind the downstairs rads on drop loops will need to be flushed out individually. They will have been holding dirty water and then circulating it round the system when the ch got switched on. Thanks Laura, thought as much. So is that a recommendation or a 'must do' to drain these also? I did one of the other non-drainers previously when I had a power shower pump put in, to get a boss on the top of the H/W tank I think it was but anyway, that rad drained fine at the time but I never (needed to) check the others at the time. In other words, might there be one of the four naughty ones that starts off the others draining? Trial and error I guess/ So pipe on each and same again? Won't that risk getting ano air lock like last time that stopped them draining? Or, will it cure itself like this last time when it refilled? Or, just leave them 'til next time we decorate a room and take the buggers out in the yard and flush them with a hose? |
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 7, 2018 13:20:19 GMT
Yes, good advice from Tom. Not uncommon to hear of people just chucking the bottle of Fernox in the F&E tank. And that's where it will stay - not circulating in the system where it should be.
I've got a short length of thin hose pushed onto the end of a small funnel. I push the end of the hose into the tank connector at bottom of F&E tank as far as I can (just a few inches, as the wife likes it ) then pour the inhibitor in funnel. I do this with the system either fully drained just before refill, or drained to just below tank. Thanks. In other words, you have to get it DOWN into the system (as either method states) otherwise it just sits in the tank? Have I seen someone do it on a towel rad? Think it was to drain off the litre or so carefully at the valve (cracking it) so you know a litre of the Fernox will go in at the top via the top plug - or, does that just risk upsetting the read valve seal anyway? Not checked the relative sizes but will a hose go into the F&E tank outlet? From the inside you mean? |
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Post by tomplum on Nov 7, 2018 14:07:25 GMT
not all plumbers agree with me on ' powerflushing' but for what its worth here are my thoughts
Its complete and utter a steaming pile of Bullshit, the videos you see are a circus, they fabricate the whole video in a' look at the muck in here' before and later its cleaner than a mountain stream,
Central heating water will be black, putting fernox and other shite won't clean it, but it changes the PH of the water and makes it more silky, like when you run water in a kitchen sink, its noisy add fair liquid and it goes quieter, cos its changed the PH levels, Years ago before fernox was invented we put fairy liquid in a noisey system, it worked and the boys with shiney shoes learned of this and found the land of bread and honey,
I made a video on how to powerflush for nothing, I just tried to find it but youtube keep changing things and I appear to have lost about 20 videos,,
anyrode, this is England, I land of corner shops, We produce fuck all but people have to make a living sell us stuff they make us think we need, The term here in Wigan is Codoligy,
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 7, 2018 14:11:35 GMT
not all plumbers agree with me on ' powerflushing' but for what its worth here are my thoughts Its complete and utter a steaming pile of Bullshit, the videos you see are a circus, they fabricate the whole video in a' look at the muck in here' before and later its cleaner than a mountain stream, Central heating water will be black, putting fernox and other shite won't clean it, but it changes the PH of the water and makes it more silky, like when you run water in a kitchen sink, its noisy add fair liquid and it goes quieter, cos its changed the PH levels, Years ago before fernox was invented we put fairy liquid in a noisey system, it worked and the boys with shiney shoes learned of this and found the land of bread and honey, I made a video on how to powerflush for nothing, I just tried to find it but youtube keep changing things and I appear to have lost about 20 videos,, anyrode, this is England, I land of corner shops, We produce fuck all but people have to make a living sell us stuff they make us think we need, The term here in Wigan is Codoligy,  Owt else I'm wasting my money on Tom? I discovered MRs FFF has wasted thousands on cod liver oil capsules the other day. (Should I expect a long list... ?) * goes off to find the Fairy * |
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Post by tomplum on Nov 7, 2018 14:27:40 GMT
found it;
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Post by tomplum on Nov 7, 2018 14:38:38 GMT
the list of Codoligy items in the house,garden, and surrounding area is too big to list, Its an actual science, I love watching Ideal World on telly, cos those guys and gals are professional codoligy mongers, they'll sell you a smart phone one day and tell you why you can't live without it, then sell you a tabet the day after and tell you its much better than any phone and they are selling so quick, if you don't buy this, you'll be the only man/woman on earth without it,  |
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Post by fastflowfred on Nov 7, 2018 14:57:56 GMT
Haha. That's the one I was referring to on ano post Tom (think it's under Tom's Top Tips or something similar) and I asked you about how you connected the hoses. Well , i still need to sort that out yet, or we'll have a very soggy lounge rug right now. Is that really just for downstairs rads though? Either that, or, as on the post above, just wait til the decorating comes around, whip the rad off into the garden and flush it with a hose? Thanks for digging it out though. |
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Post by tomplum on Nov 7, 2018 17:59:20 GMT
yea, toms tips is Tomplum, where all my plumbing vids are grandad tommy plumb are all my nonsence and piss take vids tom plum 2 is my spare channel for stupid stuff or vids I don't want many to see, like this, its a fun one for here |
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Post by lauraleeks on Nov 7, 2018 18:39:19 GMT
FFF regarding your down rads, it wouldnt take much effort to stick a hose on each one separately and let the f&e tank flush them out, at least then you are starting from a clean system. My view on powerflushing/flushing in general is this; with a conventional boiler like yours you can get away with a dirty system to a greater extent as the waterways are larger, although even pumps and 3 way valves can be affected by sludge which has developed into more solid magnetite flakes. I would advise anybody with a combi system to try and keep a clean system, as there are more components with tiny waterways which when they gum up will result in expensive repairs if you cant diy. For most people a simple diy flush as per Toms tip will be sufficient to keep on top of it.
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) then pour the inhibitor in funnel. I do this with the system either fully drained just before refill, or drained to just below tank.
