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Post by pawleyplumber on Nov 25, 2020 20:42:51 GMT
a small hotel that we work for asked us to change 7 electric showers to a unvented system and get rid of the electric showers. she wants to rent the property out to the council. so their workers can stay there while there working in the area. but the council wont Allow it at the minute because there saying the electrics don't pass there checks because how many electric showers are in the property. a sparkys been out and said not enough electricity going to the property and will need to change it to a 3 phase system. don't have a clue about that side of things but I'm guessing it too expensive and asking us to change the plumbing instead..
i am working with a gas engineer on this job as I'm well out my depth but going to learn a lot. we have done a few unvented systems but on a normal house with 2 - 3 showers.
we was thinking of putting a unvented cylinder 300l on each floor and re pipe all the showers.
there is 2 boilers in the property at the moment but one of them is a waste of time its 30kw combi just heating couple of rads in the cella and 1 shower so were thinking of changing the combi to heat only to heat the new cylinders and few rads and the other heat only boiler is about at its maximum btus wise so we cant use that to heat the new cylinders.
going to be a massive job and not an easy one to do either just wondering if anyone done something like this in the past we don't want to go though all this to find its not going to work or only work when 2 or 3 people are showering at he same time.
do you guy think this would be the best option or gravity fed system. much appreciated.
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Post by tomplum on Nov 25, 2020 20:58:42 GMT
unvented is much better than a gravity, less pipework , more efficient and probably cheaper to run that 7 leccy showers but, it all will depend on usage, We can't see the lay out from here and I'm assuming the radiators are running off the same system, It sounds a good project Pawley, please keep us informed and post some pics, it will benefit us all,  |
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Post by dickpuller on Nov 25, 2020 21:22:07 GMT
I’d say if you’re fitting shower mixers, you’d need to address the problem of pipe sizing & particularly the Hot service pipes in the Building. Are these showers over Baths or in cubicals?
Perhaps the best approach would be a gas fired Andrews water heater for HW. Then there’s the pressure & flow of the existing Cold water supply. You may need a Breaker Tank & Pump, or Accumulator.
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Post by pawleyplumber on Nov 25, 2020 21:25:10 GMT
cheers tom got to go back Friday to double check what the both boilers are heating up and do a final btu calculations. just so the customer knows were not tying to fob her off with changing the boiler for no reason but to be fair its about at the end of it life. so might aswell change it over if going ahead with cylinders.
the boiler upstairs. is heating one cylinder for one bathroom and all the radiators form what we can tell. going back to make sure though.
got to change the mains going in as well because that all on lead. got to test to make sure there will be enough water pressure for unvented and if there isn't she might have to put it on its own water supply from the street to get the pressure not going to be cheap.
will take some photos of the job but depends what route she going to go down either rewire and put 3 phase in or change the plumbing. cheers.
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Post by pawleyplumber on Nov 25, 2020 21:37:43 GMT
I’d say if you’re fitting shower mixers, you’d need to address the problem of pipe sizing & particularly the Hot service pipes in the Building. Are these showers over Baths or in cubicals? Perhaps the best approach would be a gas fired Andrews water heater for HW. Then there’s the pressure & flow of the existing Cold water supply. You may need a Breaker Tank & Pump, or Accumulator.cheers dick. never thought of using just water heater for the HW but think my gas man says on a domestic gas meter your only allowed 60-65kw appliances and with thats in the property already were at the max on that too without upgrading the meter to commercial in my eyes that what she should do. fitting shower mixers and we have got to upgrade the pipe sizes and branch of in 15mm to the showers Then there’s the pressure & flow of the existing Cold water supply. You may need a Breaker Tank & Pump, or Accumulator. - is that what you would need to get enough cold water supply if it not enough coming through mains. cheers. |
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Post by pawleyplumber on Nov 25, 2020 21:40:48 GMT
I’d say if you’re fitting shower mixers, you’d need to address the problem of pipe sizing & particularly the Hot service pipes in the Building. Are these showers over Baths or in cubicals? Perhaps the best approach would be a gas fired Andrews water heater for HW. Then there’s the pressure & flow of the existing Cold water supply. You may need a Breaker Tank & Pump, or Accumulator. all over cubicals. |
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Post by dickpuller on Nov 25, 2020 21:50:10 GMT
Well, 65KW & 35mm Gas Supply Pipework is the biggest you can do on a domestic gas ticket.
You could have the whole Building HW services on an Andrews Water Heater & Andrews Storage Tank/cylinder. Being like an Unvented Cylinder, but with a huge HW flow rate.
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Post by pawleyplumber on Nov 25, 2020 22:04:24 GMT
Well, 65KW & 35mm Gas Supply Pipework is the biggest you can do on a domestic gas ticket. You could have the whole Building HW services on an Andrews Water Heater & Andrews Storage Tank/cylinder. Being like an Unvented Cylinder, but with a huge HW flow rate. yeah i have just been looking into them and definitely think its worth mentioning it to my gas man, don't think he as heard of them before, so we could look at that as an option is that what you would do if it was your hotel lol just try to get the best solution so dont have to do it all again or waste a ton of money trying. |
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Post by DIYDafty on Nov 25, 2020 22:36:36 GMT
Let me say first to pawleyplumber that it sounds like a good bit of work and I'm sure you'll do a great job. But its made me think. In the building industry, if a small builder is asked to say knock through a wall 99 times out of 100 he'll know if its supporting or not and might be able to take on the whole job maybe even speccing out the rsj. But if he can't or lets say he's asked to build something much bigger than he's done before, he'll go to a structural engineer who will do all the calculations and take on the risk that if something bad happens when its all in place it will be the S.E. who is to blame. So isn't that the same in plumbing? Take a daft extreme example. If you were asked to spec out the plumbing for canary wharf when it was being built you'd probably turn it down. So in the plumbing world who is the equivalent of the S.E. ? Who can provide drawings that detail all the pipe sizes, all the pumps, tanks and boilers and then take the blame if it doesn't work? There surely must be people who do that for a living? As I say, this project here is hardly the QE2 or Canary Wharf but its a big one and I'm sure pawleyplumber will do a grand job. It just made me think a bit.... |
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Post by dickpuller on Nov 26, 2020 7:41:20 GMT
What Dafty is saying, if you fell asleep reading his post 🥱🥱
Perhaps, you should employ the services of a M&E Consultant??
But hey, this is good coming from someone doing his own Gas Work???!!!😂😂😂😂
Hmmmm....Double standards spring to mind!!
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Post by pawleyplumber on Nov 26, 2020 20:34:30 GMT
cheers dafty yeah not a bad idea to give a m+e a call or get a survey done and go from there. and dick would you need a commercial license to install the gas fired Andrews water heater they dont look to difficult to install to be fair. its going to be harder to run the copper for all the hot outlets.
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Post by dickpuller on Nov 26, 2020 22:02:02 GMT
cheers dafty yeah not a bad idea to give a m+e a call or get a survey done and go from there. and dick would you need a commercial license to install the gas fired Andrews water heater they dont look to difficult to install to be fair. its going to be harder to run the copper for all the hot outlets. It depends on the size of the Andrews type gas water heater matey. You could have a word with them, it’s not a huge install. Critical fact that needs to be established is incoming mains pressure & flow rate. Nobody can design anything without knowing that!! |
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Post by pawleyplumber on Nov 27, 2020 8:43:18 GMT
cheers dafty yeah not a bad idea to give a m+e a call or get a survey done and go from there. and dick would you need a commercial license to install the gas fired Andrews water heater they dont look to difficult to install to be fair. its going to be harder to run the copper for all the hot outlets. It depends on the size of the Andrews type gas water heater matey. You could have a word with them, it’s not a huge install. Critical fact that needs to be established is incoming mains pressure & flow rate. Nobody can design anything without knowing that!! Yeah we are going there later today to have a look at the water pressure and flow rates and got to do btu calculations for the boilers that is already there for the heating and see what we have left gas wise to run the gas water heater. Cheers dick. |
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