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Post by jcplumb on May 27, 2022 20:26:44 GMT
I've been hearing what sounds like water running through my houses pipes for about a week, stand near the kitchen sink and I can hear it, Stand in the bedroom where the water pipes go under the floor and I can hear it, also can hear it in the bathroom.
All times of day, but it's loudest in the middle of the night when the rest of Bolton is being quiet.
I stuck a pressure gauge on the outside tap and turned the water off at the toby in the road, within 10 seconds it went from 2.5 bar to zero.
Turned the toby back on and turned my houses stop cock off and it maintained 2.5 bar for 30 minutes.
So unless anyone has some pearls of wisdom that say I missed something, it looks like I'll be excavating the back of my house next week.
Grrrrrrr
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Post by cathoderay on May 27, 2022 22:49:49 GMT
Lift the inspection chamber and check if its going to waste just to make sure.
Ifits going through the pipework in the house is it really underground. ?
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Post by jcplumb on May 28, 2022 14:39:39 GMT
I can hear it in the pipework but it's just travelling, the leak is between the stop cock and the water boards stop tap  |
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Post by cathoderay on May 28, 2022 14:50:10 GMT
 😠|
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Post by tomplum on May 28, 2022 20:23:51 GMT
if its a shared main, it could be in another line,  |
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Post by dickpuller on May 29, 2022 6:01:32 GMT
If it only your Mains Supply Pipe, you’re only responsible from your Boundary. So get your Water Authority out first to check it’s not their problem. It maybe a Lead pipe if it’s an old property & there maybe LA Grants available to replace it.
If it’s a long underground run of pipe & you want to replace it, consider getting a company in to Mole the new pipe in.
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Post by jcplumb on May 29, 2022 15:34:50 GMT
Water board came out today and I may just be going senile because I'm very confused by what happend... I was out and he came and checked it at the toby and phoned me to say he can confirm there is no water escape. I said I was on my way home and could he wait for me. Thoroughly nice chap to be fair - he said yes. So opened the toby, closed the stop cock off then closed the toby. that's the run between my tap and theirs isolated and pressurised. Waits a minute and opened the toby, you could hear the gush as the pipe refilled, so to me there's a leak, he agrees that you wouldn't hear that gush unless water has gone somewhere. Also put my pressure gauge on the outside tap with everything open, it reads 2.3 bar. Closed my stop tap off and it maintained 2.3 bar for a few minutes, then we closed the toby and opened my stop tap and watched the needle slowly drop, it took about 2 minutes to drop to zero - yesterday it was taking about 10 seconds. So he sticks a water meter on the toby connection, opened the toby and you see the dial spin then slow down and stop which shows that there is no leak. He said he'd be happy to excavate the toby but he can't unless he sees evidence of a leak and the water meter test is the official test. He also used a listening stick (?) and confirmed that was negative. He agreed with me that there was a pressure drop earlier but there doesn't seem to be one now. It's been a couple of hours since his visit and the water has been on all that time and the noise has gone, I can no longer hear the sound of water travelling through my pipes. So in my mind, his visit somehow fixed the leak without him doing anything to fix the leak... He suggested that maybe there was a leak but maybe all the turning stuff on and off had dislodged a bit of muck which has plugged it, I know that can happen but to go from what sounded to me like a gusher to no leak is stretching that theory a bit. My guess is that there was a philmac type fitting used when they replaced the toby a few years ago and it was misaligned enough to start passing and when he was tightening up the water meter during the investigation it caused exactly the right movement down there to align it. Looking down at the toby it is now at a slightly off angle which I didn't notice before. Anyway, problem solved and a happy but confused JC Plumber (for now)  |
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Post by jcplumb on May 29, 2022 15:35:56 GMT
if its a shared main, it could be in another line,  Yeah, the toby only serves my property, proper head scratcher |
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Post by tomplum on May 29, 2022 16:09:56 GMT
the gremlins are in it somewhere, Like you say JC, It might be the compression nut just needed an extra turn, if so, thats fixed it but,Leaks just don't disappear, Keep us inform on this mystery JC,  |
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Post by crowsfoot on May 29, 2022 20:28:47 GMT
You can hear underground leaks with a screwdriver placed metal to metal on the tap and the handle to your ear.
If you can hear it hissing loudly the leaks normally pretty close whist a faint hiss it will be quite a distance away and maybe not on your patch.
This one seems a bit of an oddity though.
NB. Contractors were fucking up installations of water meters in my area on a regular basis a few years ago.
The buggers would turn the water off telling the customer that the pipe had now burst under the house then bugger off!!
I redid a few before the gaffer said to pass them back to the water board if I get anymore.
The service pipe that they were trying to connect the new meter up to was entering the meter at around 45 degrees instead of going in straight and water would be pissing out of it!
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Post by jcplumb on May 30, 2022 13:15:18 GMT
Well the noise came back last night so I'm thinking it may be pressure dependant.
i.e. when everyone's using water the local pressure drops and my leak doesn't show, at night time or when everyone's at work the pressure rises and the leak comes back.
As a plumber, the couple of times where a customer has given me those symptoms where the issue is dependant on the time or day - a fitting has been the cause of the issue.
Once when a kitchen tap didn't work on Saturday and Sunday mornings, that one turned out to be an ISO that was almost closed and the screwdriver slot was detached from the actual valve and it was such a small opening that it needed pressure to pass.
The other one was where the customer could smell mould in the kitchen coming from under the floor, I went on a Saturday and lifted a couple of boards to find evidence of a leak but no active leak, got a call back that night because the customer had left the floorboards up to help the area dry out and the leak was now spraying out of a pushfit fitting.
So I'm sticking with my original theory. They used a philmac type fitting a few years ago to connect the new toby to my supply pipe and that's where the leak is, my guess is that it's not lined up properly.
They're coming back tomorrow so will let you know how I get on.
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Post by jcplumb on May 30, 2022 13:22:52 GMT
You can hear underground leaks with a screwdriver placed metal to metal on the tap and the handle to your ear. If you can hear it hissing loudly the leaks normally pretty close whist a faint hiss it will be quite a distance away and maybe not on your patch. This one seems a bit of an oddity though. NB. Contractors were fucking up installations of water meters in my area on a regular basis a few years ago. The buggers would turn the water off telling the customer that the pipe had now burst under the house then bugger off!! I redid a few before the gaffer said to pass them back to the water board if I get anymore. The service pipe that they were trying to connect the new meter up to was entering the meter at around 45 degrees instead of going in straight and water would be pissing out of it! That's useful to know. If the meters were in the ground you wouldn't be able to see down to the actual connections because the housing for the meter and stop tap is a good 12-18 inches above and has a bottom part that hides anything under it. The water would be isolated until they've fitted everything and unless the meter housing started to fill up with water they would presume the leak was on the customers pipes. That could be exactly what my problem is. |
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Post by battle1066 on May 30, 2022 16:25:45 GMT
Well the noise came back last night so I'm thinking it may be pressure dependant. i.e. when everyone's using water the local pressure drops and my leak doesn't show, at night time or when everyone's at work the pressure rises and the leak comes back. As a plumber, the couple of times where a customer has given me those symptoms where the issue is dependant on the time or day - a fitting has been the cause of the issue. Once when a kitchen tap didn't work on Saturday and Sunday mornings, that one turned out to be an ISO that was almost closed and the screwdriver slot was detached from the actual valve and it was such a small opening that it needed pressure to pass. The other one was where the customer could smell mould in the kitchen coming from under the floor, I went on a Saturday and lifted a couple of boards to find evidence of a leak but no active leak, got a call back that night because the customer had left the floorboards up to help the area dry out and the leak was now spraying out of a pushfit fitting. So I'm sticking with my original theory. They used a philmac type fitting a few years ago to connect the new toby to my supply pipe and that's where the leak is, my guess is that it's not lined up properly. They're coming back tomorrow so will let you know how I get on. Or they’ve fitted it without the insert. Mind I’ve had a few jobs off the block pavers who twist the meter assembly to suit their jobs profile. |
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Post by crowsfoot on May 31, 2022 10:34:25 GMT
You can hear underground leaks with a screwdriver placed metal to metal on the tap and the handle to your ear. If you can hear it hissing loudly the leaks normally pretty close whist a faint hiss it will be quite a distance away and maybe not on your patch. This one seems a bit of an oddity though. NB. Contractors were fucking up installations of water meters in my area on a regular basis a few years ago. The buggers would turn the water off telling the customer that the pipe had now burst under the house then bugger off!! I redid a few before the gaffer said to pass them back to the water board if I get anymore. The service pipe that they were trying to connect the new meter up to was entering the meter at around 45 degrees instead of going in straight and water would be pissing out of it! That's useful to know. If the meters were in the ground you wouldn't be able to see down to the actual connections because the housing for the meter and stop tap is a good 12-18 inches above and has a bottom part that hides anything under it. The water would be isolated until they've fitted everything and unless the meter housing started to fill up with water they would presume the leak was on the customers pipes. That could be exactly what my problem is. Could be JC. Did it start around the same time as the meter installation? They were never plumbers who were doing this rough work. |
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Post by jcplumb on May 31, 2022 14:37:45 GMT
I first heard it a few weeks ago and thought it was the noise of traffic but to be fair it could have been going on for ages and got worse recently.
The boundary tap was changed a few years ago.
I've been looking into the cost of replacing my whole main, using a groundbreaker box would mean I can probably do it for about £300 with the only disruption being the trench.
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