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Post by dickpuller on Jul 14, 2023 6:51:47 GMT
šš Iām getting it tight from Dafty!! Considering, I suggested a Split Unit, youād think he would be more grateful?
Hey ho, such is the life of an artisan, weāre open to abuse.
Though installed plenty Split Units, as Iāve previously stated. I did install one in a Rented Office, at the time of my vast Business Empire. I had a Meter checking Leccy consumption & I roughly got a COP of 2.5. However, it was a dirt cheap unit & not the invert type.
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Post by crowsfoot on Jul 14, 2023 12:31:22 GMT
It's that garden booze up session tomorrow - so hopefully I'll get the time to ask my old workmate about his two AC units and if I do I'll forward on the report.  Quite some going that Dick to fit two unvented cylinders in day, you must be well organised and have a very good work routine worked out. I don't know if it's still the same but when I was on bonus if we had ever fitted two cylinders in a day for 20 hrs in the next contract we would be down to having to fit two for 10hrs then the next contract price would drop even more until no-one had a cat in hells chance of earning any bonus by fitting unvented cylinders! I once complained about fitting a new WHB price of just 40 minutes to the foreman his solution was to come back with some guttering jobs with 4hrs on them that we could easily do in 1hr - all very typical of time and motion in the 80/90s. I for one was very pleased when it got kicked into touch in the 00s.  |
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Post by dickpuller on Jul 14, 2023 17:18:07 GMT
As you state cf. Lots of inconsistencies in Target/Bonus Labour Times, even from Firm to Firm.
With New Build Sales slowing down & the Housing Market generally slowing down, the future looks a bit bleak for the Trade.
However, with the āUsed Car Salesmenā types now setting up Heat Pump Installation Companies, I guess itāll be good money doing that. Iāve had offers of Jobs from a couple of the āSheep skin jacket wearing typesā already, who are desperate for guys & the Price work Rates look very appealingšš In other words; the clueless cunts have no Trade experience, make an arse of Designs & go tits up quickly!!
With a Government Grant of around Ā£10K to fit a Heat Pump, thereās already a few popping up - trying to get in on the actšš
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Post by DIYDafty on Jul 14, 2023 19:13:39 GMT
šš Iām getting it tight from Dafty!! Considering, I suggested a Split Unit, youād think he would be more grateful? Hey ho, such is the life of an artisan, weāre open to abuse. Though installed plenty Split Units, as Iāve previously stated. I did install one in a Rented Office, at the time of my vast Business Empire. I had a Meter checking Leccy consumption & I roughly got a COP of 2.5. However, it was a dirt cheap unit & not the invert type. Blimey - u started it m8 ! Its a shame as its an interesting subject. I'd be interested to know with a UK type of heat pump what pressure does the high side refrigerant line work at? And what gas do they use? |
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Post by crowsfoot on Jul 17, 2023 14:48:32 GMT
Your question seems to have lain unanswered for a while dd so I thought that I'd have a go and consult a file booklet that I was given after a 1 day talk on heat pumps by a guy from Calorex heat pumps in 2005.
Not even sure if this what you wanted dd but the refrigerant is listed as R134a
Whilst the refrigeration for the high pressure side reset is listed at 430PSIG for a manual reset and 400PSIG for a auto reset.
Interesting (although not what you asked) is the low pressure reset is listed at 3PSIG.
Hope it's of some use to you dd, it's certainly way over my head.
I'll try and post you the diagram of it up.
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Post by crowsfoot on Jul 17, 2023 15:08:24 GMT
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Post by tomplum on Jul 17, 2023 20:35:16 GMT
good post Tappy,  |
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Post by dickpuller on Jul 18, 2023 5:21:17 GMT
This being a Geothermal Heat Pump detail, just in case the hard of thinking get confused. Of course the pressures & indeed, the type of Gas is changed by manufacturers, to try to improve efficiency. AC & Heat Pumps is a large, mature industry, so thereās developments all the time. |
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Post by crowsfoot on Jul 18, 2023 7:02:13 GMT
I thought that it might be interesting to re-activate an old video of mine of a GSHP actually working.
The darker coloured pipes (dripping in condensation) are directly from the ground loop (RHS of the diagram) and are both very cold to the human touch and I can't by feel any difference in the temperature of either of them.
The lighter coloured copper pipes below are warm to the human touch and are the main heat supply which is supplying the heat to the heating system (LHS of the diagram).
It's a poor quality of heat that is achieved cheaply without any burn and is working (to my mind) exactly has it should do.
Yet the 17 years I spent working on the plumbing side of HPs it told a very different story in the feedback that I would get from the customers - "too expensive"; "not hot enough" "lovely; and all the radiators are red hot (and they were)!
(
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Post by dickpuller on Jul 18, 2023 17:11:39 GMT
Itās funny, the whole Heat Pump Industry, as it is at this monument in time, so reminds me of the Central Heating Industry in the early 70ās & what it mustāve been like in he 60ās.
Very few have any idea about design & thereās a huge demand for the systems.
When I started my Time in the early 70ās, the Boss would say; āOh weāve a couple of big Central Heating jobs over the next few weeksā!! They were 7-8 Radiators & a big Oil or Gas Cast Iron Boiler.
Each would take 1.5/2 weeks to do, 2 Tradesmen & Me.
Then in the 80ās, things changed. We entered the era of A Combi & 6 Radiators fitted in one day!!
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Post by DIYDafty on Jul 18, 2023 19:11:55 GMT
Pains me to say but I think Dick is right. We are on the cusp of an explosion of heat pumps. Where I might differ (?) is I think people will see air to air as an option. The traditional AC industry worldwide is very mature meaning prices of units are low and reliability high considering how complex they are. I admit there is no answer there for HW. One thing I've found interesting is that whilst its fairly easy to get the units themselves at a reasonable price, all the tools and materials are very expensive in this country. There are a very small number of 1 man bands selling kit at crazy prices. Take simple ducting - it costs a fortune. Whilst things like plaster guttering are cheap with large fittings being had for 2 or 3 quid, the stuff made for the HVAC industry costs a fortune. e.g. One simple tee costing Ā£18 plus delivery.... www.airconspares.com/inoac-100mm-t-joint-nt-100 |
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Post by DIYDafty on Jul 18, 2023 19:15:13 GMT
Your question seems to have lain unanswered for a while dd so I thought that I'd have a go and consult a file booklet that I was given after a 1 day talk on heat pumps by a guy from Calorex heat pumps in 2005. Not even sure if this what you wanted dd but the refrigerant is listed as R134a Whilst the refrigeration for the high pressure side reset is listed at 430PSIG for a manual reset and 400PSIG for a auto reset. Interesting (although not what you asked) is the low pressure reset is listed at 3PSIG. Hope it's of some use to you dd, it's certainly way over my head. I'll try and post you the diagram of it up. Cheers CF - definitely over my head too ! With the units I'm fitting there's one outside unit and one or more inside. They need connecting together, made leak proof and then some care with the vacuum. |
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Post by crowsfoot on Jul 19, 2023 7:29:24 GMT
Thinking out loud I would think the pipework inside the diagram (HP) that I posted is doing exactly the same job as the pipework you're doing for your split air conditioning units. The difference is that the evaporator is in one of the units and the condenser is in the other one (hence split unit?) whilst the HP contains both The compressor is reversable in these split air con-units and at the flick of a switch the condenser(heat) becomes the evaporator(cold) and evaporator (cold) becomes the condenser(hot) just my altering the direction that the compressor moves! Like I've said before I've never fitted any air-con units and above is just me trying to apply a little logic from what I know from a plumbers perspective about these air-conditioning units. Hence, keeping things in lay-mans terms or am I just thinking total rubbish here?  .. |
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Post by dickpuller on Jul 20, 2023 18:24:03 GMT
Thinking out loud I would think the pipework inside the diagram (HP) that I posted is doing exactly the same job as the pipework you're doing for your split air conditioning units. The difference is that the evaporator is in one of the units and the condenser is in the other one (hence split unit?) whilst the HP contains both The compressor is reversable in these split air con-units and at the flick of a switch the condenser(heat) becomes the evaporator(cold) and evaporator (cold) becomes the condenser(hot) just my altering the direction that the compressor moves! Like I've said before I've never fitted any air-con units and above is just me trying to apply a little logic from what I know from a plumbers perspective about these air-conditioning units. Hence, keeping things in lay-mans terms or am I just thinking total rubbish here? .. A great description cf. that sums up pretty well. Split Units are an inexpensive Heat Pump. It can give you a good blast of Hot....or indeed, Cold Air. As Iāve stated before, ideal for a Conservatory on an Autumn or Spring evening. |
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Post by DIYDafty on Jul 20, 2023 20:00:49 GMT
Well, after so long doing DIY and having so much respect for many of the trades (mostly plumbing, sparx and now refrigerant/aircon stuff) I've to make a knife edge decision on whether to get the formal skills to allow me to buy/sell aircon systems and possibly to do some DIY commissioning. A "course cowboy" if you want, but its the only way to legally buy or sell the F gas itself or units that contain it. So C&G 2079 part 1 or 2 is the main one but I just don't trust the Training Course Companies because they have an incentive to fail you so you need to pay them for more training. I had a chat with the folk from Beijer Ref which as far as I know are a big Swedish company who are quite big players in the industry. When I bought my Mitsubishi kit I could see on the invoice a chain of about three companies with them at the top who own the warehouses etc. As I understand it, unlike natural gas you can commission other people's work. So they do all the hard work drilling holes etc and you just come along, check for leaks then pull a vacuum, refill if necessary and provide your bank details.... I've ran websites before so buying/selling is the other idea but even if nothing comes to any of that, just being able to service what might be 6+ indoor units at home would save me and be good to get the confidence that I'm doing it properly. www.beijerrefacademy.co.uk/ |
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