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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 19, 2020 20:36:27 GMT
Hello All
I've decided to document my second attempt at a kitchen and do so on this great forum. I'll hopefully update frequently if not every day. That way it will help keep me motivated, get some much needed input from folk who know what they are doing and hopefully doing my bit to add some "content" to the forum.
So the rest of the family has already made the move abroad due to our two autistic 3 year old twins who weren't getting anything like enough help in the UK. I'm here to get the house ready to rent out - something I've never done. Its a big house with a whole load of junk so its going to be quite a project to get it ready. The kitchen is falling apart as is a bathroom upstairs. So I need to do both those two asap so I can join my wife and kids ASAP.
I've only done one kitchen before - that was upstairs in the annex above the garage. In theory that was a lot more work than this one as there was nothing there before - it was a bedroom miles away from existing bathrooms. But doing that one, I had time on my side. Now I want to get things done asap. At 48, I'm not that fit and struggle working for more than 6 hours but that's a lot better than the 1-2 hours per day I did on the other kitchen!
As before I'm planning to use DIY Kitchens. God knows why they use that name. The reality is they are similar in cost to howdens etc but the quality is very good. Unlike the other kitchen I'm planning to keep as many first fix fittings in place as possible. Once exception is a ton of pipes that were enclosed in a very ugly makeshift floor to ceiling cupboard that I've just demolished.....
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Post by battle1066 on Aug 19, 2020 20:49:00 GMT
Evening DD - what a good idea.
Is this a two end project
1 against time
2 is there a limited budget
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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 19, 2020 20:52:16 GMT
Lots of black water pouring on my face and down my neck today so Tom, definitely no need to think about changing my name !
Task is to move those pipes into the ceiling and/or onto the left wall so I can build a false wall on the left and then have full width worktop along its length.
It was going quite well for the first couple of hours. I'd cut back a lot of the pipes and planned out how I was going to connect them. The two 28mm pipes will elbow into their respective 22mm pipes so coming out of the ceiling will only be 2 heating pipes. I'd got as far as dry fitting 28mm into the 22mm. Then being a dafty, I realised I hadn't fully drained down.
There was still a bit of a drip. Now I hadn't opened the rad vents from upstairs hoping that at some point the water would stop. So I thought maybe the water is just very slowly glugging out of the rads. Anyway, I then bunged all four pipes while I went upstairs and opened all the vents and also opened the MVs .Came back downstairs removed bung/stop-ends and let the new water out.
Then I got the wet vac out and sucked water out but it just kept coming. At one point I noticed the water was hot! Well that must be a pin hole leak in the cylinder coil as nothing else was hot. I'm buggered if I'm changing that cylinder - its only 5 years old. Anyway, I closed the gate valve on the cylinder coil return and that seemed to stop all HW. But the vac just kept pulling more and more water from somewhere (!)
Touch wood its stopped completely so I can solder up tomorrow. If its still wet tomorrow I'll empy the fking cylinder and maybe the CW cistern for good measure.
In all this, what really peed me off was to see two 15mm compression stop ends in the ceiling that the polish plumbers must have put in when I'm flogging my guts out trying to get the pipes dry enough to solder. Compressions under floorboards it terrible but Mrs Miggins won't ever know.
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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 19, 2020 20:55:13 GMT
Evening DD - what a good idea. Is this a two end project 1 against time 2 is there a limited budget Hi Battle There is a budget which is why I'm doing it myself but there's not a hard limit. And timewise, similar - just as soon as I can do it - 6 months would be good.
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Post by battle1066 on Aug 19, 2020 21:13:43 GMT
Evening DD - what a good idea. Is this a two end project 1 against time 2 is there a limited budget Hi Battle There is a budget which is why I'm doing it myself but there's not a hard limit. And timewise, similar - just as soon as I can do it - 6 months would be good. Well let's see what we can collectively help you with DD but what of the original kitchen is staying - appliances, cabinet carcasses ?
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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 19, 2020 21:47:39 GMT
Thanks Battle. I haven't ordered it yet but I think I'll keep the dishwasher, oven and fridge because they are functional. Cupboards and worktop will go. I'll skim over the artex ceiling and put 6 new spots in plus redo the floor and wall tiling.
Edit: Just looked at the first pics I posted and you can't see how totally knackered the cupboards are. Hopefully the attached pic makes it clear!
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Post by tomplum on Aug 20, 2020 7:48:34 GMT
Splendid idea to do the project from here Dafty, Water down the neck is obligatory when working from underneath So you're still on the list of contenders for a 'clever twat' badge, Just looking out of the window there, that looks a mighty fine gardened property So, You must have had, or still got a good job to get in that position but, don't worry we are not predudised against post cunts on here, I take my hat off to you sir to take on a huge project and will help at every stage, Well done,
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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 20, 2020 14:05:52 GMT
Splendid idea to do the project from here Dafty, Water down the neck is obligatory when working from underneath So you're still on the list of contenders for a 'clever twat' badge, Just looking out of the window there, that looks a mighty fine gardened property So, You must have had, or still got a good job to get in that position but, don't worry we are not predudised against post cunts on here, I take my hat off to you sir to take on a huge project and will help at every stage, Well done, Cheer Tom. We're in the countryside here so most places have a decent gardens but yes it is a decent sized house. Bought it over 10 years ago and it was a wreck. Not much better now HAHA but since I'm planning to rent it out my mind is focused. Only a lowly software engineer who tries to do everything himself - makes life more interesting.
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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 20, 2020 20:36:13 GMT
Easy bit now done - all of the existing pipes out of the way. Still getting grief from wet pipes. I soldered in one of the two tees and I thought I'd get away with it as was one new drip every minute or so plus the pipe was open so I thought steam should just escape. Started soldering and somehow the heat brought new water to drip through the flux. Was on a real downer but pressed on anyway adding half a reel of lead. Thought I'd water test and by a miracle it held fast! I now refuse to do any more soldering unless the pipe is bone dry. So might empty the HW cylinder.
Also removed some cables. I opened up a junction box on the wall to see what was going on with a view to moving it. Well, in the same box I was reading, 12V DC, 4V DC and 240V AC. WTF? After a LOT of messing around I realised that two CU circuits were going into the box. One was from the nest box to the nest controller (which is 12v) the other side I was reading the battery so getting 4V. Then another cable was from a totally different circuit on the fuse board and that was 240V. It was unused and terminated in the box so I moved it up into the ceiling into a JB. That way there are no cables left in that wall to worry about.
Tomorrow I hope to connect up the pipes. Probably won't finish but if I do it will be great as in desperate need of a shower.
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Post by crowsfoot on Aug 20, 2020 21:32:37 GMT
Looking better now DD with all those stop ends out of the way.
Heat does draw the water and if you are struggling to solder I've got a tip - move the flame up the pipe say 6ins in the direction that the water is comong from and give it plenty of heat for a couple of mins - now quick as you can go back to the joint and you may have bought a few seconds of dryness which hopefully will enable you to solder the joint.
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Post by battle1066 on Aug 20, 2020 21:36:56 GMT
Evening DD.
Are you working alone or is there an assistant helping you out cause working on your own is an art form not many can master properly?
Pleased to see your making steady progress but your thoughts should be focused at the stage your working on during the working period for that part job and don't let what if's creep into your mind when you've not got the problem until it fails the testing.
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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 20, 2020 22:26:54 GMT
Thanks a lot for the interest and looks like a great tip there from tappy so thanks for that ! Hopefully I won't need it as I'm going to be stubborn as hell not doing anything until they are dry.
Battle, I'm on my own. A bit bloody lonely without my family but at least nobody can moan at me for the mess. If I understood what you said, are you saying I shouldn't suspect anything wrong until the job is complete? I somehow just needed to know if that joint was sound or not. If I solder bone dry, I should have the confidence and not need to test all the time.
In case in the future any other diyer reads this, whatever the pro plumbers say I promise don't ever, ever try to solder on a pipe that isn't bone dry. I'm sure you need their years of experience to do it so don't try it. Dry its so much easier.
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Post by woodbine66 on Aug 21, 2020 12:04:57 GMT
In case in the future any other diyer reads this, whatever the pro plumbers say I promise don't ever, ever try to solder on a pipe that isn't bone dry. I'm sure you need their years of experience to do it so don't try it. Dry its so much easier.
Yes, on a hiding to nothing trying to solder pipes with water in. Can be done if it's not running or water is a bit further along from the joint. But takes a lot more heat and you have the problem that the steam generated from the water heating up will try to blow the solder out as you're trying to feed it in.
I've tried it as a last ditch on joints that have been soldered up then system refilled and the new joint has been found to weep. Drain down system, but there's a small amount of residual water in there that can't get out. Lot of heat, lot of flux, lot of solder and lot of luck to re-sweat and rescue a bad joint. Don't look to pretty either.
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Post by woodbine66 on Aug 21, 2020 12:13:41 GMT
The Yanks have a good way of stopping a slighltly running pipe long enough to be able to solder. It's a dissolvable plug that you push into pipe, solder up, then heat the area where the plug is to dissolve it.
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Post by DIYDafty on Aug 21, 2020 20:48:46 GMT
That sure sweat looks good to me. Maybe thats where ultimate handyman got his idea of using bread - not that I'd want bread going round my heating system. Anyway, today I started putting in the new pipes. I've done long runs with a few turns before but never had to many pipes to do in a small space. As you can see its going slowly and only about half of the joints there are soldered up. How long would it take you to rip out the existing pipes and put in these new ones? How much cash am I saving? (And please don't say half an hour and £50 HAHA )
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