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Post by DIYDafty on May 31, 2023 16:03:21 GMT
Having abandoned my slightly crazy idea of having a standby boiler I've gone back to looking at aircon.
Not so much for the 4-6 weeks here that it gets boiling hot but as a way to heat if I just need a couple of rooms heated in winter to save putting on the whole gas CH. As far as I can tell, aircon is just a heat pump working in reverse but unlike the kind of massive whole house aircon units, aircon is sold throughout the world in there billions. So the unit cost is much much cheaper.
Anyway I plan to buy a known name in aircon like Mitsubishi. That is if I don't have to travel abroad to get one as F Gas regulations make it some sort of "crime" to buy one! Perfectly allowed to buy a boiler but an aircon unit? Oh no....thats a criminal offence. WTF
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Post by crowsfoot on May 31, 2023 16:32:44 GMT
I'm no expert on air con units dd, another plumber that I used to work with had one fitted and thought very highly of the unit (despite him having to have it re-gassed in the two summer heat-waves that we had)!
Like heat-pumps, if you're using it for heating purpose during the cold weather it'll be working it's bollocks off just to process the heat out of the cold air (it could well be cheaper and more effective to heat your room with a normal electric fire, methinks?)
If you do decide to try it though it would be very interesting to get your readings next winter from the ground floor (so to speak).
Tappy,
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Post by DIYDafty on May 31, 2023 17:54:14 GMT
I'm no expert on air con units dd, another plumber that I used to work with had one fitted and thought very highly of the unit (despite him having to have it re-gassed in the two summer heat-waves that we had)! Like heat-pumps, if you're using it for heating purpose during the cold weather it'll be working it's bollocks off just to process the heat out of the cold air (it could well be cheaper and more effective to heat your room with a normal electric fire, methinks?) If you do decide to try it though it would be very interesting to get your readings next winter from the ground floor (so to speak). Tappy, All I know so far is some bloke on a forum I forgot where says it takes his unit 10 hours to chew up 2Kw. That would be 10 times cheaper than a 2 bar fire but sounds too good to be true. I'll keep you informed and of course I plan to install myself if I can find an R32 pump somewhere not too expensive. |
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Post by DIYDafty on May 31, 2023 18:04:04 GMT
All I found out so far is just when I start to get my head around a lot of the plumbing sizes and fittings along comes aircon with another hundred sizes. 5/32 anyone?
And why do the use a flared connection ? What's wrong with an olive and nut ? Summit to do with the high pressures maybe ?
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Post by battle1066 on May 31, 2023 18:52:40 GMT
All I found out so far is just when I start to get my head around a lot of the plumbing sizes and fittings along comes aircon with another hundred sizes. 5/32 anyone? And why do the use a flared connection ? What's wrong with an olive and nut ? Summit to do with the high pressures maybe ? This explains it in a fashion pipeandhose.com/book/about-flare-fittings5/8 "SAE = 7/8" -14 UNF suitable for 16 mm copper pipe |
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Post by DIYDafty on May 31, 2023 19:38:43 GMT
All I found out so far is just when I start to get my head around a lot of the plumbing sizes and fittings along comes aircon with another hundred sizes. 5/32 anyone? And why do the use a flared connection ? What's wrong with an olive and nut ? Summit to do with the high pressures maybe ? This explains it in a fashion pipeandhose.com/book/about-flare-fittings5/8 "SAE = 7/8" -14 UNF suitable for 16 mm copper pipe Found this as well I thought quite interesting. Comparing compression with flare: blog.redhedri.com/when-to-use-compression-or-flared-fittingsInteresting he says compression is inferior once made and yet we allow it to be on gas. |
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Post by dickpuller on Jun 1, 2023 5:43:25 GMT
Buy a Split Unit from Amazon Dafty. You can get it delivered next day, when I searched it didn’t ask for my F Gas number.
Air to air split units in my experience are fairly good COP wise. Inverter types are best, don’t worry too much about the types of Fridge Gas.
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Post by crowsfoot on Jun 1, 2023 9:22:19 GMT
I'm no expert on air con units dd, another plumber that I used to work with had one fitted and thought very highly of the unit (despite him having to have it re-gassed in the two summer heat-waves that we had)! Like heat-pumps, if you're using it for heating purpose during the cold weather it'll be working it's bollocks off just to process the heat out of the cold air (it could well be cheaper and more effective to heat your room with a normal electric fire, methinks?) If you do decide to try it though it would be very interesting to get your readings next winter from the ground floor (so to speak). Tappy, All I know so far is some bloke on a forum I forgot where says it takes his unit 10 hours to chew up 2Kw. That would be 10 times cheaper than a 2 bar fire but sounds too good to be true. I'll keep you informed and of course I plan to install myself if I can find an R32 pump somewhere not too expensive. I wouldn't pay too much attention to those cop ratings dd. The longer the unit runs the more electricity it will use. Heat pumps produce a "poor quality of heat" the only saving factor being it can be a very cheap form of heat. When you don't really need extra heat it will quickly and cheaply produce you more heat, however, when it's cold and you really need extra heat it will slowly and much more expensively produce heat (more air as to be processed by the heat pump in the cold weather than in warm weather, hence, the compressor has to run much longer). This is all then factored into those magical laboratory cop ratings which give you a misleading overhaul picture on heat pump efficiency. |
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Post by dickpuller on Jun 1, 2023 12:47:25 GMT
These compression fittings specifications are just mad!! For example: LPG, which is a very dangerous Gas, on boats, the pipelines are joined by Type A compression with copper olives. However, low pressure Kero oil lines in domestic homes are to be Type B manipulative flared fittings. It’s bonkers!!! |
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Post by dickpuller on Jun 1, 2023 12:55:00 GMT
All I found out so far is just when I start to get my head around a lot of the plumbing sizes and fittings along comes aircon with another hundred sizes. 5/32 anyone? And why do the use a flared connection ? What's wrong with an olive and nut ? Summit to do with the high pressures maybe ? This explains it in a fashion pipeandhose.com/book/about-flare-fittings5/8 "SAE = 7/8" -14 UNF suitable for 16 mm copper pipe AC was invented & developed in North America battle. Companies like Carrier are some of the largest HVAC companies in the world. Hence the use of Imperial pipe in the AC industry. Also, these copper pipes are degreased & very clean, for the long term life of compressors. Carrier are also owners of Riello(which Vokera is part of) & Viessmann |
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Post by DIYDafty on Jun 1, 2023 13:35:32 GMT
Buy a Split Unit from Amazon Dafty. You can get it delivered next day, when I searched it didn’t ask for my F Gas number. Air to air split units in my experience are fairly good COP wise. Inverter types are best, don’t worry too much about the types of Fridge Gas. Great to see you're more relaxed about F gas than you are about the explosive natural gas. I thought you'd be telling me how irresponsible my activities are and that I would personally be responsible for killing all the seals in Antarctica or something. Didn't know you were F gas registered? That's a shrewd move I would say. Its definitely gonna get more popular but dunno about in Scotland? I'm leaning towards a Mitsubishi multi-split but still researching. I've noticed some shops that stock the full range say "won't dispatch until you give us your installer details" but some say "won't provide warranty....." which makes me think they will sell them. And good call on Amazon - I found a few with no F Gas warnings whatsoever. Looking at this one at the moment with a 1.5 and a 3.5 to go with it. aircon-online.co.uk/product/scm-outdoor-units-up-to-2-rooms/?attribute_pa_scm-ou-up-to-2-rooms=scm41zs-w |
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Post by DIYDafty on Jun 1, 2023 13:38:09 GMT
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Post by crowsfoot on Jun 2, 2023 8:10:14 GMT
Looks good dd, I think the the only way to find out if it's any good or not for is to try it for yourself.
NB. The leak that my former workmate had on his AC unit turned out to be on the installation engineers own pipework (which he said was done with brazed joints).
The first unit was then replaced free of charge by the company but when it happened again shortly afterwards the installer then decided to redo all his joints.
So it could be well worth buying from a company with a good name in after sales service?
I shouldn't really tell you this but the original unit was left in my former workmates hands (and is possibly alright). In-fact, the last that I had on it was when I retired
that he was planning to Install the unit upstairs as a second AC unit freebee!!
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Post by dickpuller on Jun 2, 2023 10:06:38 GMT
Amazon listing, add to this a Line Set & outdoor unit bracket; Mitsubishi Heavy Industries - MHI 2.5 kw - (Non-Wifi) Dual Heat/cool amzn.eu/d/fspALmc |
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Post by dickpuller on Jun 2, 2023 18:13:58 GMT
Mini Splits became popular here to Heat Conservatories, well, you’ll never Heat a conservatory - too great a Heat Loss. But you can sit in your conservatory of an evening & get a blast of hot air while watching Coronation Street in the Spring & Autumn. Again, they are useful in the height of Summer for AC.
As for Heating a poorly insulated old gaff in the middle of Winter, Nat Gas will always be cheaper.
As I keep repeating myself, ASHP will only be economic to run as Low Temperature CH & for that, you need a well insulated home, with minimum Heat Loss.
Careful Dafty, you did give me credit for my extensive knowledge in one of your posts, but quickly edited it😂😂😂
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